No apology necessary. There was always an oddness and incongruity about Independence Plaza. When I first moved here as a student in the 70's I had a p/t job delivering laundry. Most deliveries were a small group of wealthier Tribecans (many celebrities), and v. busy people who worked in finance, and took a chance on living in the nabe - which as you point out was totally unloved by middle class folks - so they could be near their offices. A number of them lived in Independence Plaza, so I had a privileged glimpse inside. It was eminently livable in those days, and such a far cry from the badly nailed-together digs that I and most of my friends lived in. — David G. Imber on Show Us Your Roof: 403 Greenwich

George's was the best shoe repair around. I certainly hope they're not gone. — David G. Imber on Sifting Through the Ashes

If it had such glaring fire safety violations in one part of the building, unresolved for months, not far fetched to presume there are deficiencies in the rest of the building... or maybe the rest of the ramshackled top were all perfectly safe and sound ...not. — Lisa Rivera on Sifting Through the Ashes

I'm with you there...honest, hard-working people who have been serving our community for decades. Perhaps one of those empty store owners could help? — JP on Sifting Through the Ashes

The violations were for the Remix club that used to be in the basement, which wasn't part of the problem. — Erik Torkells on Sifting Through the Ashes

I will miss the small businesses, like the wonderful shoe repair store, which I assume won't be able to come back. — Pauline on Sifting Through the Ashes

111 has open violations for FAILURE TO PROVIDE FIRE RESISTANCE MATERIAL on DoB website. FIRE TRap — Lisa Rivera on Sifting Through the Ashes

I live around the neighborhood, that was crazy last night. I smelled the smoke all the way by the staten island ferry. Just curious, does anyone know when they will release the exact information on what / which store caused the fire outbreak?!? Thanks! — Hamzid on Sifting Through the Ashes

Truly disturbing that FDNY or any other agency can forget the firing range left that address after 9/11. Makes sense, right? The obnoxious club, Quest aka Remix, had been there ever since the area rebuilt from 9/11, fortunately this year their liquor license was revoked due to DOB and fire code violation (and numerous other violations). Simply shows the continuous lack of connection between our city agencies. — neighbor on Sifting Through the Ashes

DOB and FDNY issued violations to Remix, having been in the premises obviously, and shut them down, all in the last year. See https://tribecacitizen.wpengine.com/2017/02/01/remix-is-in-hot-water/ However, last night FDNY thought and announced there was a gun range there. Why is that? That is the kind of ignorance that gets firefighters hurt and killed when responding to a fire. Fortunately no deaths have been reported here. — James on Sifting Through the Ashes

Putting out a fire isn't always putting water directly wherever you see flames (that's how grease fires spread). Depending on the type of fire, different techniques are employed to tend to it, with the goal of starving oxygen/combustion sources, and also preventing structural collapses (a gallon of water is over 8 lbs... dumping 100k gallons of water through the roof could trap firefighters in a roof collapse). Flames shooting out of the roof on a ground floor restaurant fire may focus the attention on starving the sources of a grease fire first before attending to smaller less dangerous fires. — alee on Sifting Through the Ashes

"Babe"? Ignorant. — loc2 on Sifting Through the Ashes

If you don't like it, don't read it, babe. — Erik Torkells on Sifting Through the Ashes

This is an ignorant example of not reporting but instead speciation and blame. You have no idea the science and work behind fighting a fire and what it entails to keep people and surrounding buildings safe. Yes let's have accountability from the FDNY but why don't you start with being accountable with actually reporting what's going on in the community and the people that protect us instead of some half ass self serving nonsense. — loc2 on Sifting Through the Ashes

I think its strange I just walked ny the Famiglia restaurant in Union Square yesterday that was shut down due to a FIRE!! strange coincidence!! — someone on Sifting Through the Ashes

Without knowing about the roof, it sounds like the initial cause was a grease fire before it spread to the wood structure and building contents. While they probably used water directly on the burning wood structure, water should not be used on burning grease. Maybe the roof location was too close to the greasy kitchen duct. — James on Sifting Through the Ashes

Looking at these new photos, that may be plausible. The interior of the pizzeria looks relatively undisturbed (furniture, etc.) but the interior of the Asian restaurant at the entrance looks highly charred. — James on Sifting Through the Ashes

A friend of mine who is a DM fan often spots Dave Gahan in Whole Foods. He graciously took a selfie with her when she asked. NY Post reports the truth! — SD on In the News: Margaret Chin Is Skipping the Debate

A fireman also told me it originated with Pho King — BobR62 on Sifting Through the Ashes

I spoke with the pizza place folks last night at the scene and they said it wasn't from them. Their vent runs off the back of the building. They were pointing to the "Chinese restaurant" by which I think they meant Pho King which is a Vietnamese restaurant whose vent, they suggested, went up the front. I have no proof of anything. Just sharing the distinction the La Familigia folks shared. — s on Sifting Through the Ashes

As we are right across and just above the building on Murray, what I found most interesting is that with the fire breaking through the roof, as plainly visible in all the photos, FDNY never threw water onto the roof. There were plenty of firefighters up there sawing through the roof to vent, etc., but they just let the fire burn and never threw water on the roof. That led me to think it mainly electrical, but now sounds like it's not the case. Asked a firefighter this morning if he knew why but he demurred. This one has me scratching my head - why wouldn't they have put water on the roof fire? Anyone know why that would be the case? — BobR on Sifting Through the Ashes

Per Tribeca Trib, on the 24 Murray Street fire: "In an email sent out Friday night, Lynn Ellsworth, president of the preservation group Tribeca Trust, mourned what she called a 'tragic loss for Tribeca.' The 1851 building, she wrote, 'was one of the last ‘ordinary’ store and loft buildings from the Civil War that stood outside our historic district borders.'” — James on Seen & Heard: Tribeca Trust Is Suing the LPC

The fire marshal should investigate for its report to see what else was wrong in the CIDS that may have hindered or hampered the FD response and contributed to the severity of the blaze. (These reports are eventually available under the Freedom of Information Law.) — James on Five-Alarm Fire at Murray and Church

No. It's possibly the fault of the local FDNY company, i.e., firehouse personnel, for not doing a proper annual Building Inspection and/or not updating the CIDS. Per http://www.fdnewyork.com/terms.asp : "The Critical Information Dispatch System (CIDS) was invented to provide fire fighters with information that might be helpful while operating at a fire scene. While companies are out on building inspection they make note of special conditions that can affect their operation. Typical entries contain the height, dimensions, occupancy, and construction of the building; the location of standpipes; the location of hazardous materials stored within; or any other critical information." For example, NBC News' website said, "Fire officials said if they hadn't arrived in time, the fire could have been devastating because they believe there is ammunition in the basement, possibly from a target range." — James on Five-Alarm Fire at Murray and Church

Per the Daily News, "The fire started inside the ducts of a restaurant on the ground floor of a five-story building on Murray St. near Church St. around 6:30 p.m., according to the FDNY." It appears it is a pizza restaurant on the ground floor. Typically pizza restaurants may not be required, unlike other restaurants, to have their type of cooking vents cleaned periodically. (See 2014 NYC Mechanical Code Section 506.) A memorandum by the NYC Department of Buildings to FDNY from 1990 states, "No fire suppression system is required in the hood of a pizza oven." See https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/cn3.pdf The ostensible reason is that they are only venting heat and moisture from cooking pizza, but there may be flammable grease from all the toppings, etc. Maybe these codes and policies should be changed. — James on Five-Alarm Fire at Murray and Church